Words: Miljan Milekić
Frank Turner is one of a kind. Rooted in folk and traditional music as much as in punk and hardcore, he created a unique blend of both, propelling himself to the level of a household name, both in the UK and worldwide. With his brand new album ‘Undefeated’ released earlier this year, and his Canadian tour kicking off on September 3rd, it was a perfect time to catch up with him. Check the interview below!
How are you? You seem to be very busy at the moment!
Frank: Yeah, pretty busy. I’m leaving home tomorrow to go on a tour. So, yeah, busy days!
On this tour, there are some places you are coming to for the first time, or you haven’t been to in a very long time. So, what do you expect from this run, and what can we expect from you?
Frank: I think it’s more the latter, but I need to check my notes. (laughs) I’m excited for it. It’s the second North American leg and the first Canadian leg for the ‘Undefeated’ tour, which is super cool. I’m stoked on the album, and I’m excited to bring it to as many people in as many cities as possible.
A couple of times in recent years, I’ve done a record and then a comparatively short album cycle, and I want this one to be a long one. I wanna play everywhere on this tour. So, there are definitely some places we haven’t been to in a long time – Saskatoon being one of them. I would have to look up when the last time we played there was, but it was quite a long time ago, so my apologies for that. But, yeah, we have our friends in Bedouin Soundclash with us for the whole tour, which is super cool. I love that band, both musically and as people. And we’ll have Bridge City Sinners as well. It’s gonna be a good time.
As you said, you are bringing your new record ‘Undefeated’ on this tour. How happy are you with the feedback on the record so far?
Frank: I’m pretty happy. I mean, it’s a funny thing you know, this is not my first rodeo. It’s my 10th album, so I’m kind of used to it. Also, with each new album, there’s an extra weight to pull against, both in terms of the reaction generally and playing new stuff in the live shows. There are nine other albums of material that people might want to hear songs from, and I do try and play at least one song off every record I have in a show. I try to keep everybody happy. But the record seems to have gone down well, the reaction was great. The first-week chart stuff was really good, but that’s a bit academic to me, to be honest. It’s more when we play songs live and people sing along. Hooray! That’s the good news. That’s a sign of confidence from my audience.
There’s always a period of time when you’re betting the songs in, you’re playing them and people don’t know them so well. And there are always some surprises – some songs that you think are gonna be huge that aren’t, and some songs that you weren’t expecting that suddenly blow up. But broadly speaking, I feel the record has gone down really well. We have a new video for a song called ‘Somewhere In Between,’ one of my favourite songs from the record, and one that I’m – obviously, ’cause we made a video for it – very keen to push and promote. I think it’s an important song, and people seem to have understood what it’s about, so that’s good.
One of the things I’ve always loved about your music is that many of your songs have a deeper meaning beyond what’s in plain sight. You seem to build a two-way conversation with your audience, giving them the trust and freedom to find their own interpretations while still keeping your original message. How challenging is it to strike that balance?
Frank: Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. It’s a huge compliment to me because, in a way, I think the holy grail of songwriting is to say something incredibly personal while also making it feel universal. If there were an easy way to explain how to achieve that, I’d be wealthier than I am now, you know? (laughs) One of my favourite songwriters, Canadian artist John K. Samson from The Weakerthans, does that all the time. And I’m always like – how the fuck did you do that, man? But I do believe in interpretation. I think that’s the interesting part about art.
There’s a guy in Germany, who I’ve met a couple of times, who has this theory that every single one of my songs is connected. I think he’s got a corkboard with bits of string on it on the wall somewhere. (laughs) And the thing is, they are connected in the sense that I write about my life, but he’s like – this character is actually this character who knows this person… And I was just like – “What the fuck are you talking about?” (laughs) But then, I was like – “Oh, no! Fuck it, you’re totally right. You’re onto something.” And it’s partly because I want to see where he goes with it, but also because I think that interpretation is king. If I think about my favourite songs and what I take from them, I’m sure in many cases it’s not a hundred percent what was intended by the writer. So, in a lot of ways, I feel most writers are chasing that sweet spot where it’s deeply personal, but it’s not so personal that it feels exclusionary. If you just write out your diary, then people will be confused. So, it’s a delicate balancing act and it is what I’m trying to do.
We already mentioned your Canadian tour, but you are also bringing your own Lost Evenings festival to Toronto. How come did you pick Toronto for this edition, and is there any kind of special connection between you and the city?
Frank: I mean, not beyond the fact that I love Toronto. I must apologize to a Saskatchewan resident (laughs), but I really, really love Toronto. I always did. I played my first Canadian show there in 2009, I believe. I was opening for The Offspring at the Molson Amphitheater (today’s Budweiser Stage), which was a strange place to play a first show, but it was just a warm welcome. I’ve spent a lot of time in Toronto over the years, and I love it.
Also, the thing I like about Lost Evenings is that it’s a portable concept. There is a basic structure to it, but as long as you find the right room or the series of rooms, you can kind of put it anywhere you like. So we’ve done London, Berlin, Anaheim, and Boston, and now it’s gonna be Toronto, which is exciting. I had the dream of having a 100% Canadian bill because I love so much Canadian music but there are actually two exceptions to this. One of them is Murdered by Death, and they’re all friends of mine. I think they’re an amazing band, so fuck it. The other one is Henry Rollins, and I think I get away with that. (laughs) Fuck, he’s Henry Rollins. I’m pretty excited about about the festival. I think it’s gonna be really good. We’ve got loads of great bands. NOBRO, The Dirty Nil, Northcote – loads and loads of really cool bands.
That’s actually one of the things that I wanted to ask you – how did you get the idea to include Henry Rollins and spoken word into this concept of this festival?
Frank: The first thing to say is that Henry was actually booked to play Lost Evenings in 2020, the one that didn’t happen because of Covid. And it took a lot of doing to get him on the bill for that one. I am sure you remember, but this was in March of 2020 when it slowly dawned on everyone how long this was gonna last. It was like – “Please don’t fucking tell me it’s gonna last as long as May.“ And then it lasted for like two years. (laughs)
Also, and this isn’t official, but every year at Lost Evenings we have a “legend slot,” if you like. Every year, there’s one slightly older artist who I adore. Last year we had Pedro The Lion, who’s one of my favourite songwriters ever. We’ve had Loudon Wainwright play. It’s that kind of slot. So, my booking agent suggested that we could ask Henry Rollins. I was like – “Get the fuck outta here, man. What are you talking about?” (laughs) But, he said yes to the one in 2020. And then, funnily enough, when we were just starting to plan this year’s one, his booking agent emailed us and was like – “What the fuck, man? When’s Henry gonna play?” And it was like – “Oh my God, he still wants to do it. That’s super cool.” I must admit though, one of the things that makes me a bit nervous is that I know Henry’s gonna be sitting there investigating who I am. (laughs) it’s just like. It’s a little bit scary, but I’m a big fan. I have my Black Flag tattoo on my wrist.
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It seems like you are trying to get everywhere you have fans, but there is one thing I wanted to ask you more about – your record for the most shows within 24 hours. How were you guys able to pull that off, and how crazy was the experience?
Frank: So, first, we did 24 shows in 24 hours in 2009. They were all in London, and we did it Saturday into Sunday, so the traffic wasn’t as bad. We had a friend with a van and we also had plans in case we needed to take the train at one point, but we didn’t in the end. But at the time I was 29, or 2028 even. I was invincible. (laughs)
Then, recently, we did 15 shows in 15 different cities in 24 hours, which is the world record. The 24 shows one – we didn’t document it because we didn’t really think about it. We didn’t do it officially, we made it into a music video. But we were all fucking wasted as well. I was outta my fucking mind for that whole 24 hours. (laughs) This time around, It was much more grown up – 42 years old and sober. But in both instances, it seemed like a really good idea until about two-thirds of the way through, when suddenly it’s like – “What the fuck are we doing?” (laughs) Particularly with the one we just did – the previous record was 10 shows in 10 cities in 24 hours. So, once I finished the 11th show, my crew were like – “Can we go home now? We’ve done it, we’ve beaten the record. Why are we doing four more shows?” (laughs) But we did 15.
With the Paris 2024 Olympics being the talking point recently and bringing the event back in focus, I would like to go back to London 2012 when you had the chance to play at the Opening Ceremony. How did that happen, and how crazy was it?
Frank: Oh, it was super weird. It wasn’t like a normal show. First of all, we were part of a much bigger show. I got asked to do it personally by Danny Boyle, film director, and opening ceremony director, which was super cool. And it’s funny because there were a few punk rock purists who wanted to have a go at me for saying yes to doing it. And it’s like – fuck off man. You know, it’s a boring story to say I nearly played the Opening Ceremony, or I didn’t play the Opening Ceremony. It’s a more interesting story to say I did. And I fucking did!
It was cool, crazy, and weird. It was such a huge production with tens of thousands of people involved, and we were just a tiny little cog in that machine. It was strange – we did the show three times. There were two dress rehearsals and the official show. And, at each of the dress rehearsals, there were like 80,000 people, and then slightly more at the official thing. But what was strange was that all these people were miles away. Immediately in front of me, there was a flock of sheep, at the bottom of a fake hill that I was standing on. And it was like – “First of all, this is weird.” (laughs) And secondly, a good show is about exchanging energy with a crowd. And it was like – “I don’t know if I can get them them to do a circle pit, man!” (laughs)
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Also, on the final night, the actual official opening ceremony… So, we’d done it twice already, and it had gone well. I did three songs and the first one was solo, just me and my guitar. So, on the final night, as I was walking out to the microphone in front of all these people and cameras and everything, the guy with headphones, a microphone, and a clipboard just went – “Oh yeah, there’s like 30 million people watching right now.” And I was like – “Don’t fucking tell me that now! Tell me after, you motherfucker!” (laughs) So I was pretty nervous, but it was cool.
It was funny afterwards, there was this big celebrity after-party type thing, and I went for about 90 seconds. I went in and just was like – ”Fuck this, this is not me. These are not the kinds of people I usually hang out with.” It was cool to be part of it, but I don’t want to start pretending that I’m a celebrity or whatever. And the other thing was we had to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement, and we weren’t allowed to tell anyone that we were playing. At the time, I lived in a bar in Camden, and my friend who owned the bar said – “Hey, on Friday night, we’re gonna get the screen down and show the opening ceremony. You should come and have a beer.” And I was like – “I will be there.” (laughs) But, I couldn’t tell him anything more than that. And he was like – “Yeah, okay, whatever.” So after I left the after-party bit, I got in a cab and went to the bar. I just walked in and was like – “What’s up motherfuckers!” Which was pretty funny.
So, to finish this, let’s start a war here. Do you like ice hockey and who’s your favourite Canadian team?
Frank: I don’t really know anything about any sports, including the English Premier League. It’s just not really for me. But having said that, the only things I know about Canadian ice hockey come from The Weakerthans songs, but that’s actually quite a lot. I know about a guy called Reggie Leach from the ‘70s because John wrote a song about him and Wayne Gretzky is in a Propagandi song. Are the Jets the Winnipeg team? So, I love the Jets then! Jets ‘till I die! (laughs) But yeah, even if I was a sports person, it would be quite weird if I knew about Canadian ice hockey because it’s not the biggest thing in the UK. But I’m willing to learn! Who’s your team?
We don’t have a professional team here in Saskatchewan. They say we’re too small of a market to support an NHL team.
Frank: Oh really?! Wow! Okay. Well, then, fuck everyone! (laughs) But you can skate on the river like in the Joni Mitchell song!
Follow Frank Turner:
Website: frank-turner.com
Instagram: instagram.com/frankturner
Facebook: facebook.com/frankturnermusic
Twitter: x.com/FrankTurner
*Interview edited for length and clarity